Thiagan,

I totally deny that I "have started manufacturing quotations"! I challenge you to come out with a single quotation of any one by me that is inaccurate, out of context (or even unreferenced)...

You said, "no muslim man will agree to be married under SMA (Special Marriages Act)".

Is this the perverse opinion of a xenophobe, or is it supposed to be a statement of fact?

If the latter, then you are wrong. Since SMA was enacted in 1954, a large number of Muslims, Hindus, Christians etc have availed of this. This FACT can be checked up easily from official records!

You are also wrong that I "will accept the same death penalty if it is carried out by Stalinists in gulags or in KGB firing squads"!

Not so. I am opposed to death penalty in principle -- under all circumstances. Please read my blog, "Death Penalty -- Is this a SMART Startegy".

Let us for now disagree on "where Sweden is heading". Okay? After how many years can we know who is right and who is wrong on this?

You said, "I have provided many quotations..."

And I have argued that all these were incomplete and out of context -- right?

I fully agree with the passage by Dr.B.R.Ambedhkar that you quoted!

I appreciate your personal views on violence by communism (as opposed to "justified homicide" by the rioters in Gujarat 2002) and so on. But why are you sharing these with me as part of this discussion? Very inconsistent and unprincipled stand on violence -- if you ask me. I am of course opposed to death penalty in principle; as also all forms of political oppression.

Anand

29/07/08

Comrade Nair,

1)   So now you have started manufacturing quotations. That is great and I never expected anything else from a communist. For them lying is an dialectical art.

2)   What is wrong with SMA? It is simple; no muslim man will agree to be married under SMA, when a more flexible option under shariaa is available. You are a simpleton that even this small matter is not clear to you.

3)   I know you are against death penalty even if it is awarded by a court of law; but you will accept the same death penalty if it is carried out by Stalinists in gulags or in KGB firing squads. I appreciate the principled stand.

4)   Communism becomes relevent since it is violent and dastardly unlike Hindu India.

5)   You will not see where Sweden is heading because you  have tubular vision; you only see what you wish to see.  Try broaden the outlook and it may help for better comprehension.

6)   I have provided many quotations, evidence and historical events to support my statement that Islam is violent and can not be factored in a diverse society. You have, on the other hand, failed to provide a shred of evidence to counter. You merely relied on bluff, bluster and lies. Unless  any material of some evidentiary value is placed, I see no reason to continue. Your repeated assertion that muslims should be given the same rights, secularism is one way traffic and multiculturalism is unconditional and absolute is tortuous and boring. It is dismissed as insufficient.

7)   You said Hindu India  will be monstrous. Some one more educated and more eminent differs. Please read:

"  India is a single geographic unit. Her unity is as ancient as nature.  Within this gegraphic unit,  and covering the whole of it, there has been a cultural unity from time immemorial. This cultural unity has defied political and racial divisions.  I any discussion on Pakistan, the fact can not be lost sight of, namely, that the starting point, if not the governing factor, is the fundamental uity of India".  The wuthor is Dr.B.R.Ambedhkar

Pakistan is in trouble because they erased the Hindu influence and have substituted with Wahabi theology; Bangladesh is following in similar footsteps.  

The Education Minister M.A. Baby announced on 17 July 2008 that the curriculum committee of the State Council of Educational Research and Training (SCERT) has resolved to bring about some changes in the Social Science textbook for Class VII. These are as under:-

a) Change the title of the controversial lesson "Mathamillatha Jeevan" (Jeevan without religion) to "Viswasa Swathantriyam" (Freedom of Belief)

b) The names of the boy and his parents (Jeevan, Lakshmikutty and Anwar Rasheed) in the lesson have been dropped and replaced with references to "boy" and "parents" in the revised version.

c) The portion of Jawaharlal Nehru’s Will (asking that no religious rituals be carried out on his death) that appears alongside the lesson, has been replaced by a portion of a speech on secularism made by Nehru in 1961.

d) The lesson will have a pointer to what the Constitution says about secularism

e) The revised lesson will also feature the sayings of Sree Narayana Guru on religion and harmony (apart from similar quotes from Mahabharata, Bible, Mohammed Nabi and Guru Nanak.

f) Along with the 1924 admission register of the Panthalloor government lower primary school given in the textbook, a copy of the admission register of either 2004 or 2005 will be given, so that students can make a comparative analysis of the changes that have taken place in Kerala vis-a-vis access to education for various sections of the population.

These decisions of the curriculum committee were based on the recommendations in the interim report of the K.N. Panikkar Committee appointed to look into complaints against newly introduced textbooks in the State’s schools.

Anand

Thiagan,

The fact I contest is whether "Sweden has collapsed" (in the past tense) as you wrongly claimed. Or that Sweden is about to collapse (in the futture tense) as ProudHindu92 claimed.

Nothing in the Wiki site you referred suggests either that Sweden has collapsed, or that it is on the verge of collapse. The regular wiki article on the country (which I quoted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden ) suggests that this is a thriving nation that ranks high in terms of the economy, freedoms and so on!

Anand

ProudHindu92,

I am happy that you agree with me that Thiagan was talking nonsense -- that Sweden has not collapsed after all!

You went on, "it surely will ..". The question is when! What is your prediction? That Sweden will collapse in the next one year, three years, ten years -- or in the next century? Well, my prediction is that this will not happen in the near future -- that there is no reason today to believe that the country is on the verge of collapse.

You went on, "Government changes every 5 year (or even earlier) - so the syllabus should also change with every change of government as per you!!"

Where you go wrong is in describing the democractic process using the imperative "should"!

Governments may well be voted back to power. Even when a government is voted out, the syllabus may well not be changed. It all depends whether popular sentiment is in favour of change. If so, why not?

I don't see how my argument in favour of a system where governments may be voted out (and where syllabuses may be changed) amounts to imposing "genocidal ideologies like communism on young and impressionable mind."

The "leftist 'intellectuals' seem to be doing a good job, if we are to judge only by the Class VII text book in Kerala. (If you have anything against this text book or its contents, please let me know. I got a copy of the book, and so we can analyse your objections on any of the lessons based on verifiable facts)

Anand

10/07/08

Comrade is a willful deceiver. He refuses to see the site I referred and read and makes an irrelevent quote. The site is :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Sweden

It says:

"Popular perceptions

In a survey conducted by Taylor Nelson Sofres on behalf of the UK-based think tank Open Europe in March 2007, 56% of the Swedish respondents agreed with the statement that "Islamic fundamentalism is a serious threat for our country."

It also speaks about:
 
>   muslims in Sweden have demanded that shariaat should govern the muslims
>   muslims have demanded specific holidays for muslims and public funding for the construction of mosques
>   Islamic organisations have been infiltrated by men fuelled by Islamic ideologies and have close relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, a proclaimed terrorist organisation
>   Brandbergen mosque is the central for armed Islamist groups
and it says lot more.

Comrade hides all these and goes and quotes innocent statements. Always tell a lie that  has  a minute lifespan.  For gang raping, the favourite Islamic sport,  please read the link I have provided.  
 

Thiagan,

Strange that you ask me to provide the "authority" for the benign quote attributed by a school text book to Mohammed Nabi. While I have no reason to believe that this quote is false, the quote ( whether this is true or false) is irrelevant to my principled support for the concept of equal citizenship rights and freedoms for all people, irrespective of religion.

No, the fate of "the Marxist states" is NOT of any relevance to my stand as above. Nor is "the good aspects of Communism" germane to this debate! Nor am I concerned about your earlier claims that millions of people were "killed by communism"!

Suffice if I remind you that I oppose "justified homicide" -- even when this carried out in the form of death penalty awarded by a court of law! On the other hand, you support "justified homicide" of people in Gujarat 2002 -- only because the victims in Ahmedabad were Muslims, and those who torched the train in Godhra too were (probably) Muslims. You and I are morally at opposite poles!

As for the "SC comment" on the uniform civil code, I had already pointed out that the Special Marriages Act (SMA) is good enough for me. Can't any Indian (irrespective of community) choose to get married under the SMA -- and thus opt out of the governance of the "personal law" for his or her community? Does the "SC comment" deny this fact?

What is amiss about the SMA, according to you? Can we not regard the SMA as the Uniform Civil Law that is freely available to all Indians -- that is, to all who choose to be governed by this?

Perhaps, what you are bothered about is "choice". Fair enough! But to me, choice is important. I do not feel we need to make the SMA (or any other Uniform Code) compulsory for all Indians, till there is a general consensus for this.

I have no doubt that Anwar Rasheed and Lakshmi Devi got married voluntarily under the Special Marriages Act, 1954. This is why they could choose to bring up their son, Jeevan, without religious affiliation. The message in this Class VII lesson will definitely help to raise secular awareness and thus generate consensus in favour of a Uniform Civil Code that is secular, and not based on traditions rooted in this or that religion...

Anand

Dear Anand,
Sweden has not collapsed since muslims haven't become majority yet. The day muslims reaches 'critical mass' in sweden, it surely will ...

you say:

There is no doubt that the government has a say in the selection of office bearers for these academic bodies. Why should this not be the case? Aren't you forgetting that we have governments that are elected by the people?

Government changes every 5 year (or even earlier) - so the syllabus should also change with every change of government as per you!!
it's a dangerous argument to impose genocidal ideologies like communism on young and impressionable mind.
Incidentally, this only highlights the way letists 'intellectuals' have dominated and hijacked the education system in India.

Thiagan,

I read the Wikipedia article on Sweden, as you suggested
[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden ]

Here is an exerpt from this:-

"World Economic Forum 2008 competitiveness index ranks Sweden 4th most competitive, behind Denmark.The Index of Economic Freedom 2008 ranks Sweden the 27th most free out of 162 countries, or 14th out of 41 European countries..."

Relieved to learn that Sweden has NOT collapsed -- unlike what you claimed in your previous comment!

Anand

10/07/08

Comrade

Please specify the authority for the Mohammed quote. My 9/7 comment.

What happened to the Marxist staes; you are fifty years behind the world. 

How about the SC comment on the uniform civil code? 

How about detailing the good aspects of Communism?