My response to Dr. Sambadan's comment:-

Dr.SIdha Sambandan,

I must thank you for personally explaining details of some of your research while commenting in this blog. Would it be accurate and complete if I summarise the findings of 30 years of research by you into Nadi as under:-

a) There are many charlatans and frauds posing as genuine nadi asttrologers [You said, "THey ripped me off by charging me over 2000Rs to tell me very inaacurate things"]

b) According to you, there are "a FEW AUTHENTIC readers - who do HONEST readings".

c) As such, according to you, "THe phenomenon of Nadi astrology exists, and is unique to Hindu Astrology."

d) Despite stating as above, you did conclude, "Much more research is required to reveal the truth". [You had concluded, "Only more research will reveal the truth"]

Fair enough!

I would like some one to carry out further research on the ability of "genuine" nadi astrologers to predict the future (as on the date of reading out the palm leaves). I propose the following methodology:-

a) Locate one or two astrologers who appear prima facie to be "genuine" (and not among the many charlatans).

b) Consider only cases of individuals whose palm leaves have been located "correctly" (based on correct information that can be read out from these about the individual's past, as on the date of reading)

c) From the above short listed set of palm leaves, get a neutral person to prepare a list of "predictions" about the concerned individuals (which can be verified as true or false on a date that is in the future, as on the date of reading out the palm leaves).

d) Do not reveal the details of the above predictions to the concerned individuals or even to the researcer, but have these predictionsput  inside a sealed envelope with dates marked outside on which these envelopes will need to be opened to check if prediction came true.

e) Preserve the above sealed envelopes in a tamper-proof neutral place.

f) On the dates mentioned outside the envelopes, have these opened and then check if the specific "prediction" about the concerned individual came out true or false.

I hope you and others who are involved in "phenomenological investigations and hermaneutics" have no objection to adopting double-blind methodology as above to validate claims. If so, such research will certainly not qualify to be dismissed as pseudoscience...

Anand

I got a response from Dr. Sidha Sambadan (who has carried out over 30 years of research,  investigating paranormal phenomena, including the Nadis) as a comment in my blog on Artificial Intelligence. I reproduce Dr. Sidha Sambadan's comment verbatim here:-

DrSambandan posted 10 hrs ago

Dear Anand,
This came into my email box! As a person who has been interedted in investigating paranormal phenomena, including the Nadis for over 30years - I would like oto make some comments: 
1) Phenomenological investigations and hermaneutics are not Pseudoscience.
2) I am not saying that Nadis are authentic; and Nadi readers are honest. After 30 years of looking into it, I yet do not know. SOmetimes the Journey is more interesting than the destination! 
3) My observations are: THe phenomenon of Nadi astrology exists, and is unique to Hindu Astrology. 
4) THere ARE a FEW AUTHENTIC readers - who do HONEST readings. 
5) It has become an INDUSTRY in India - thanks to all the Tourists and Foreigners who came into the scene! 
6) The authentic readers - will NEVER ask for anything more than your name and Thumb print. 
7) I made a sceond visit to Poosamutthu - in Vaitheesevaran Koil - exactly 25years after having a superb, and accurate reading. To my horror - I realised that my second experience was not only shockingly inasscurate; but I felt that the Govt of India should take action to stop these people from fraudulent behaviour and they should be taxed properly on the income they make by hoodwinking the public. 
8) I was able to prove for the first time; when many years ago - I actually took the digital photograph of the names in my Nadi and got it read independently by another. This was published in the Journal of Humanities of Sri Lanka, with my friend Prof.Arsekularatne. Shashikant was fully aware of it. But I found it amusing that when I wrote to Sashi about my second experience in Feb 2008 - I did not even have an acknowledgement!! 
9) I am certain of one experience - THey ripped me off by charging me over 2000Rs to tell me very inaacurate things. On this 2nd occasion the arrogant guy - asserted that I had to give him the date ; time; and place of birth!!!  WHen asked why, he showed his book - and said " we take it from everybody" "This is Nadi". He did not know that I hae been resarching it for over 30years!
THe entire consulatation was done by a person, who was fishing for clues by asking various questions. Despite getting the names right - on this occasion by vowels etc - even the past and present had soem fundamental mistakes. I let hims record and say it anyway. After he completed it; I actually told him - how sad I felt that after 25yrs - people like him are doing injustice due to their avarice for money! I told him that my eldest daughter died in 2006! HE was "reading" as though she was alive. It was a good thing that I did not get the 4,000.00 reading!!!! 

It is a pity that the Govt does not put an end to these types of Charletans. WHat is interesting is that one of the many Nadi readers I have been too - one of the most authentic ones 25years ago - has now turned into a useless team of people, greedy for money and hoodwinking Foreigners likemyself. 

The powers that be should regulate these people - to publicly have their fes on Board; give a receipt for each client and declare their earnings for Taxes, like any other business. ut, I must say - I have been fortunate to meet some honest, sincere readers, and ONE even gave me the leaf to keep - as it was intended by the Rishes, THe current commercial readers will never part with the leaves. 

I am not interested in teh age of the leaf. WHat I could not dind the answer to; is why a leaf in India - should have the names of a person born in Sri Lanka and his wife's name "Joephine" - latter being born in England! I was able to personally decipher my wif's name in Old Tamil - as I was able to read the "So" and "Sa". 

Only more research will reveal the truth.
Best wishes,
Dr.SIdha Sambandan.FRCS;FRCGP;FHEA
sambandan@aol.com
sidha.sambandan@nhs.net

Krishnan Bala,

You are again wrong that I am "persistent in the belief that all real experiences have to be investigated  rationally with out any resort to out-side influence and based on our own judgement about which no there is no dispute."

Please read my blog on "Good and bad reasons for believing". Among the good reasons for believing, there is no insistence that "all real experiences have to be investigated  rationally". We do not at all seek to disbelive or to investigate experiences (real on unreal) reported by  different people.

For example, if some one says that he personally experienced seeing an  unexplainable display of telepathy by PC Sorcar Jr., we will certainly believe that this "experience" really occured to that person.

But if the person where to state that his experience "proves" that telepathy is a real phenomenon; or that PC Sorcar Jr. has supernatural or psychic abilities, I will NOT believe this. When I take this skeptical stand, what I am disbelieving is not the "experience" of the person, but his unreasonable inference, based on his personal experience.

I agree that I will not personally waste time to investigate claims regarding "Past life regression". But I am really happy that there are others who are investigating these claims. Best luck to them!

My personal opinion is that they too are wasting their time. Future will show if any such research on punarjanma will ever bear fruit, or otherwise will enrich human knowledge about the universe or man in any significant way. I am prepared to wait...

Anand

Dear Anand,
                         You are persistent in the belief that all real experiences have to be  investigated  rationally with out any resort to out-side influence and based on our own judgement about which no there is no dispute.  I quote from the book "THE AGE OF SCIENCE" by Gerard Piel-the founder of SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, "  This is remarkable,because scientific inquiry is constrained by three rules, self imposed by the mutual agreement of its practitioners.A scientist can admit to rational consideration nothing but the physical reality that is accessible to experience. On the experience in question and what it may mean,a scientist can recognise no authority but his or her own judgement and must, at all times,  hold that authority in suspicion.The experience must yield evidence open to inspection by others." I do not for a moment think that in any of your arguments,you have displayed this pre-requisite for an informed discussion on the matter. We are not reaching any conclusions on the theories postulated but before we condemn a particular investigation it would be better not to post a final judgement.If Mr.Anand were to investigate "Past life regression "  or researching the  resucicated cases of life termination and revival, we can assume that our journey will end before the investigation commences.

Krishnan Bala,

You said, "there are so many mysterious happenings in this universe for which, science has not found an effective explanation as of now."

Right -- such as on how exactly PC Soracar Jr., pulls off a particularly amazing magic trick. But this does not mean that Sorcar has supernatural magical powers. In fact, Sorcar openly tells us that all his magic (for which Science has found no explanation yet) are mere tricks that others can be trained to perform, and that he has no supernatural powers!

Anand

Krishnan Bala,

You are wrong in concluding that my "only objection to Nadi astrology seems to be that it does not conform to conventional scientific theories".

My primary point is that Nadi astrologers are capable of "reading out" only simple facts about people that COULD have been obtained through fraud (even if we do not know exactly how this is done -- as we may not know how Sorcar does an amazing magic trick).

Moreover, the Nadi Astrologers are quite incapable of telling people about things that are yet to happen in the future (as on the date of reading the palm leaves)! Why should this be so? Does this not suggest the possibility of fraud?

Can any Nadi Astrolger give a list of predictions that we can validate (as true or false) in 2009 and 2010? Can the astrolger read out accurately as to who among the 10 people (all of whose Nadi leaves have already been located and whose past was so accurately read out) would die in 2009, or who would become a father. mother or grand mother in 2010? Can we check out these predictions by the end of 2009 or 2010? (All these future facts are written by Agasthya in the Nadi leaves, right? If so, whay can't these be read out today to make predictions for 2009 and 2010?)

Einstein had predicted in his paper of 1916 (on the postulated gravitational effect on light) that this can be verified (or falsified) by OTHERS during an eclipse that was to occur on May 29,1919 (a future date, on the date of publishing the paper). THIS is scientific method in action....

Anand

Dear Nair,
                      Sorry for dropping by after a long absence. After a long and vivid discussion,your only objection to Nadi astrology seems to be that it does not conform to conventional scientific theories. The accuracy of future prediction is not authoritatively claimed here, while the the description of the individual and the  minute details of his family constituents based on  a simple thumb impression is not disputed, though you will term it as a fraud,for it fails to pass the"Turin' s  Test". 
Putting it differently, the hypothesis of Einstein was verifiable at a future date by the occurrence of a cosmic event while the standard of predictions of the details of an individual, how ever anonymous he may be, has no equivalent template to compare with. If this is your case Mr. Nair, there is no point in splitting the hair as there are so many mysterious happenings in this universe for which, science has not found an effective explanation as of now. Even the expanding universe is a phenomena of recent origin confirmed by  Hubble's telescope and the"Bird's drop "could have as well held the fancy for generations to come.

kumar234,

The shoddy write-up by S.N. ARSECULERATNE & S.SAMBANDAN does indicate ONE anecdote where a person was allegedly told (by a nadi astrologer) the name of his future wife -- and the assertion that this later turned out to be true!

This itself is the recounting of a PAST anecdote -- and not the result of a test, carefully planned and executed by the researchers! Such anecdotal evidence is not permissible in scientific research!

Valid research would include a list of predictions (relating events that are in the future, at the time of publishing the research) obtained by researchers from Nadi astrologers that can be easily verified (or falsified) by OTHERS, later on as the future unfolds.

Einstein had predicted in his paper of 1916 (on the postulated gravitational effect on light) that this can be verified (or falsified) by OTHERS during an eclipse that was to occur on May 29,1919 (a future date, on the date of publishing the paper). THIS is scientific method in action....

Anand

kumar234,

Sorry. But you are wrong. The write-up (despite its length) would hardly qualify as a "research paper". This is extremely shoddy, and addresses the wrong questions regarding nadi astrology.

The basis objection to the Nadi methodology is that this "predicts" only mundane information of PAST events (as on the date of reading out the palm leaves) that COULD have been obtained by fraud.

The Nadi astrologer can "predict" a person's name, date of birth, health, that has six fingers and so on. But these are information regarding the PAST, and not about the FUTURE (as on the date of reading out the palm leaves). This itself would suggest fraudulent methods, even if the exact method actually used is not known to me or you.

If the nadi astrologers can read out from the palm leaves ONLY such inane information about the PAST, this does NOT require and reasearch to disprove. Why did S.N. ARSECULERATNE & S.SAMBANDAN waste their time in this "research"?

There is no evidence that Nadi is able to predict the FUTURE with a level of accuracy that is not possible though normal methods of predictions by known methods of science. This aspect may be researched. But then I do not even see claims that nadi is successful in predicting facts about the FUTURE (as on the date of reading this out)! Is this not because the palm leaves do NOT contain this information?

THAT is the point. Has any one reasearched on THIS?

Anand

this reseacrh by sri lankan scientist show their must be some thing true in nadi astrology. what saravanan said is true. amazing!!!