What is Trickle-down Theory?

Apr 13 2007  | Views 929 |  Comments  (105)
The policy of lowering taxes on high incomes and business activity is often described as "trickle-down" (or supply-side) economics... Expand

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  Anand Nair posted 1 year ago

 
ProudHindu92,
 
You said, "By 'welfare state', you mean 'liberal democracies like US, India and Denmark'."
 
You have understood RIGHT about the Western democracies.
 
India would not qualify as yet -- as we have not implemented social security. Measures such as the rural employment guarantee scheme (being implemented in 200 odd  districts of India) take us TOWARDS being a welfare state.
 
I would not refer to China as a welfare state -- though they do provide almost universal social security. As I said earlier, the absense of political freedom to openly protest against government policies would disqualify that country.
 
Anand Nair
 



  Anand Nair posted 1 year ago

 
Anniyan Anniyan,
 
You said (referring to a malayali job seeker at the Gulf), "He will stay back."
 
Why should he (or anyone else) "stay back"? Isn't great that Kerala produces a large number of people every year who have to merit to find jobs easily at other parts of the world? This fact itself is a measure of success of the inclusive Kerala model that enpowers people at large -- rather than concentrates wealth among few!
 
You said, "I never knew eating parippu vada and drinking chaya in some mukku kada contributes so much to SDP and HDI"
 
You have obviously a lot of learning to do! You may like to read up on what terms like State Domestic Product and Human Development Indices mean.
 
You said, "See what is happening in West Bengal"
 
Why are you being mysterious (like Aditi)? What are you referring to? Be specific please...
 
Anand Nair
 



  santosh samuel posted 1 year ago

Mr Nair
This is your comment in this blog on April 23. That is u down below so graciously sending our customers (and our jobs to china) The source for my statistics on china is is www.globalaging.org


So let these companies go to China. Certainly such companies deserve no sympathy -- let alone government concessions. And we too -- despite being a democracy -- are poised for economic growth! (Remember that in China, they have do social security. Now, this is something we may emulate -- rather than the absence of political rights in that country!)
 
Regarding government ownership of businesses
 
When private companies fail only their shareholders suffer. Those shareholders have voluntarily invested in those companies. But when the government takes my tax money and invests it in busineesse that fail (maybe u can enlighten us on the total losses incurred by public sector enterprises over the last 50 years)  I feel that is irresponsible. The govt employees have no incentive to grow a business like a private enterpreneur. Did your children study in govt schools, do u get treated in a govt hospital recently, do u buy govt made soaps? That is why Jet airways has overtaken Indian airlines in just a few years time ... Private players have every incentive to succeed and they are risking money that is voluntarily given by their investors. NOT FORCIBLY TAKEN FROM TAXPAYERS
 
If u think all the pilferage is unimportant i beg to differ. If u add the cost of pilferage the cost to the govt is huge. They may as well rely on the free market and give out food coupons like the USA does
 
Santosh



  Anand Nair posted 1 year ago

 
Aditi,
 
You wrote, "If you tax  your memory cells a bit more, may be you will also remember the story of the very nationalised Indian Bank?"
 
I am really unaware as to what you want me to "remember" about Indian Bank! Why this mystery? Why not just tell us what you have in mind!
 
Any way, here is the latest news (23 Apr 2007) about Indian Bank:-
 
 
 
But surely, there are PSUs (OTHER than Indian Bank) which have done miserably. Why should occasional mismanagement be the preserve of some private sector units (including large mega-corporations)? Hadn't I said in my last post, "We have had losers too in the public sector, as we have these in the private sector..".
 
What is your point?
 
Anand Nair
 



  ASH05 posted 1 year ago

PH92

The western capitalist states have always been welfare states. America was less so compared to Europe but after Johnson that changed too. Scandinavian states score high on this, and after experiencing some fiscal problems in the late '80s-90s, they reformed enough to sustain the welfare state while generating the necessary revenues. the lesson has always been how to get the stronger/ richer to produce more ina way that benefits not only them but also others. In that regard, the word "them" is very important because without them, others won't benefit. Who is "them"? In a truly meritocratic society, I would think it is randomly distributed but we know the world is not perfect.
But compared to UK and France, the scandinavians are a succeess story in maintaining the welfare state precisely because they removed the disincentives for entrepreneurial activity. Of course, businesses will always say labor is bad, and all labor laws should be scrapped etc., and I think that is pure crap. Given a chance, business will strip the planet without a second thought. But, controlling business does not mean penalizing them. Most governments do not seem to realize it (they do, they have better people than us here, but when it comes to action..)

 

The closest that the world has seen to the mythological pure capitalist state of dog-eat-dog was Russia in 1991-1996 period, thanks to Mr. Jeffrey Sachs (who is on a huge post-russia guilt trip right now), and of course the proletarian dictator the late Yeltsin (may his soul rest in the bottle). The Russians always wanted a dictatorship of the proletariate but they always got intellectuals to head their state- intellectuals of the deviant variety too. In Yeltsin, the construction supervisor, they realized their dream.



  ProudHindu92 posted 1 year ago

AN saab,

a) The State provides social security for all citizens
 
b) All citizens have the equal democratic right to vote
 
c) All citizens have the right to openly protest against government policies

As per your defining characteristics of 'welfare state', most of the so-called capitalist states score best !! And almost all the Islamic state and communist states fail miserably.

Now, I understand. By 'welfare state', you mean 'liberal democracies like US, India and Denmark'.




  anniyan anniyan posted 1 year ago

The new word tossed around by Anand Nair when he labor to justify Marxist policies is 'Human Development Index'. So next time any Malayali is bound to Dubai give him or her some 'Human Development Index'. He will stay back.

I am a Malayali and I know the state as much as Nair. It is an open secret in Kerala. Without money coming in from outside there is no SDP and HDI.  I never knew eating parippu vada and drinking chaya in some mukku kada contributes so much to SDP and HDI.

Anand Nair, tell me how many creative ideas have India and China come up with that they can sell it to others in the recent times? You were saying that West and Japan made their wealth thru exploitation. True. Blame is not entirely the exploiters. Part of the blame (as much as 50%) should be with the exploited people too. When you don't have anything to sell then the rules are put down by the dominant guys, how much ever you try to whitewash this fact. Unless of course there is another competitor for the same service.

Imperialism broke because of the same reason. Earlier on there was an understanding between these guys. They co-opted each other. Only when Germany tried to race ahead that the whole circus flopped. So moral of the story. Allow competition where ever it is possible. It is good for the public. Even in case of India and many other socialistic countries this is the case. When there is no competition  the service was poor. Monopoly of 'Welfare policies' by Marxists also is not good for the public. See what is happening in West Bengal. This will happen when Comrades who have no expertise in free market tries to do free market. They are good only in talking. So they should talk. If they try to reform they kill.





  Aditi Ray posted 1 year ago

"I can remember at least one instance of a new generation private sector bank having failed within the last 3 years -- the Global Trust Bank, whose business was then taken over revived by the public sector Oriental Bank of Commerce!"
 
If you tax  your memory cells a bit more, may be you will also remember the story of the very nationalised Indian Bank?



  Anand Nair posted 1 year ago

 

santhosh samuel,

 

you said, "Mr Nair u were talking about the chinese welfare system..."

 

Are you sure? I am pretty certain that I did NOT refer to what you call "the chinese welfare system"!
As a matter of fact, if you look at the features of a welfare state that I listed (for the benefit of ProudHindu92), you will see that China fails on two counts. The only feature that may be present there is social security. But even on this count you inform us (unfortunately without revealing the source) that in China, the "...current social welfare system has a narrow coverage for only limited number of citizens"!

 

You asked two questions out of the blue!

 

a) "Do u believe that the government running businesses (steel, banks etc) is a good idea?"

 

Yes, I think the public sector has done a wonderful job in several sectors -- including in banking. Our public sector banks have done a fair job in extending credit to the poorer sections of society. The State Bank of India continues to dominate the banking business in India, despite the opening up of the sector to private and even foreign players. I can remember at least one instance of a new generation private sector bank having failed within the last 3 years -- the Global Trust Bank, whose business was then taken over revived by the public sector Oriental Bank of Commerce!

 

Is it not amazing that we have a number of large profitable companies in the public sector -- these competing successfully against the private players? We have had losers too in the public sector, as we have these in the private sector too. I am sure you know the fate that befell the private sector textile mills in Mumbai and Ahmedabad! (As also cases of major failures of mega corporations in the US in recent times!)

 

Of course if we can get the private sector to come in with the funds -- and if we are assured that these private players would play the intended socially beneficial role -- then there can be no objection to private steel mills, banks or whatever. This is NOT because these industries CANNOT be profitably run in the public sector. It is because we can see that the OBJECTIVE behind setting up industries in the Public Sestor can be achieved by private players.

 

The ISRO that successfully launched the rocket that placed the Italian satelite on orbit today, highlinghts the fact that  establishments in the public sector too can be hugely successful!

 

You asked another unrelated question, "Do u beleive that subsidised goods reach the actual beneficiary?"

 

In many places and instances subsidised goods have reached (and continue to reach) the intended beneficiaries. At other places and instances there has been pilferage or diversion of these to private retail shops. The success is mostly in areas where the people are politically conscious -- such as in Kerala. And failure has mostly been in places where feudalism is still strong, and where there are strong private players who are out to corrupt officials and politicians.

 

I would NOT agree that we need to abandon social welfare measures (including reservations) just because these have have not reached intended beneficiaries in many cases. As people become aware of the power of their vote, such corrupt practices will become more difficult and rare. There is no short cut to successfully achieving  inclusive grassroots development and high HDI. Kerala has shown that this is possible, and also how to go about this....

 

Anand Nair
 



  santosh samuel posted 1 year ago

Mr Nair u were talking about the chinese welfare system. Here is something I found for u (SOE is State Owned Enterprises)

According to the Constitution, citizens have basic rights to social welfare.  However, current Chinese social welfare system mainly targets at urban residents.  Farmers, employees of township enterprises, and immigrants from the rural areas to urban areas, which comprise of the larger proportion of the population, are basically not covered by the social welfare system. Even within cities, social welfare system doesn’t cover all employees.  Only SOE employees are all covered by social welfare system.  Moreover, the current social welfare system is designed for full-time employees, not part-time workers.  Therefore, current social welfare system has a narrow coverage for only limited number of citizens.
 
Do u believe that the government running businesses (steel, banks etc) is a good idea?
Do u beleive that subsidised goods reach the actual beneficiary?
 
Santosh





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